Thursday, 15 April 2021

yeouneun otteo-okeo umnikka? ning ning ning ning ning ning ning! Learning some Korean(Hangul) in Duolingo

The Korean alphabet is interesting. So I'm trying to learn it a bit.


Duolingo threw up the "what does the fox say" phrase last night :) Coolaboola :)

Executive summary: Duolingo said 여우는 어떻게 웁니까? == yeouneun eotteohge ubnikka?

BUT 

웁니까 == ubnikka is not a valid word in Korean!!? 

움니까 == umnikka == move
웁니다 == ubnida == cry (as in an animals cry)
SO 여우는 어떻게 웁니다? == yeouneun eotteohge ubnida? is probably what Duolingo intended.


BUT (BUT number 2)

The phrase in the song is "what does the fox SAY" and say in English is about human speech.

So the correct translation, I think is the google translate translation which is:

여우는 뭐라고 하는가? == yeouneun mwolago haneunga? == lit. fox-the what do-it(say?)?

OR .. closer to the Duolingo phrase ..  

여우는 어떻게 말합니까? == yeouneun eotteohge malhabnikka? == lit. fox-the how say?

SO, If any kind Korean person could check this and say what is a good translation I'd appreciate it! :-D



Tricky to match the verb used to find the exact literal translation ... and characters.

Using google translate can find these: .. close but the verb is not the same ?

여우는 뭐라고 하는가?
yeouneun mwolago haneunga?

what does the fox say?
lit. fox-the what do-it(say)?

여우는 어떻게 말합니까?
yeouneun eotteohge malhabnikka?
lit. fox-the how say?
how does the fox talk?

여우는 어떻게 울어요?
yeouneun eotteohge ul-eoyo?
how does the fox cry?

Lookup that verb .. first char is ieung u mieung ? ... https://unicode-table.com/en/3147/

https://unicode-table.com/en/1144/ Hangul Choseong Ieung-Pieup

https://unicode-table.com/en/1143/ Ieung-Mieum 

ARGH!  How do you lookup korean chars?

"As an example, the syllable 하 (ha) consists of the characters ㅎ (h) and ㅏ (a), but both of them are encoded separately." from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_language_and_computers Ahh. ok. 

https://www.lexilogos.com/keyboard/korean.htm 움니까

YESSS! Thank you. 움니까 BUT google translates 움니까 as Move ??

여우는 어떻게 움니까 == yeouneun eotteohge umnikka == how does the fox move
??? EHHHHH?
OH! 웁니다   It's not umnikka, it's ubnida! see below, ubnida is cry.

Also there is this discussion:

Translation:What does the fox say? September 8, 2017 ... @Daniel - Koreans mostly use 어떻게 to signify What (in relation to verbs). E.g. 어떻게 생각해요 = What ...
"웁니다 is cry, but here it was translated to say, I think in English "what does the fox says" sounds more natural than "what does the fox cries""
- so google .. move ?
- ? some people and Duolingo are missing the point of the phrase in the song!? The song lyric is "What does the fox SAY?" Which is not about a fox call in the wild but purposely uses the verb SAY which is for human speech. SO .. I think .. the phrase should be 여우는 뭐라고 하는가? == yeouneun mwolago haneunga? == lit. fox-the what do-it(say)? OR 여우는 어떻게 말합니까? == yeouneun eotteohge malhabnikka? == lit. fox-the how say?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jofNR_WkoCE

Ylvis - The Fox (What Does The Fox Say?) [Official music video HD]

1,004,028,864 views•3 Sept 2013


한국어를 배우다
hangug-eoleul baeuda
lit.Korean-the learn

나는 한국어를 배우고있다
naneun hangug-eoleul baeugoissda
I am learning Korean.
lit. I Korean-the learning.

나는 한국어를 배우고 있습니다
naneun hangug-eoleul baeugo issseubnida
I am learning some Korean.
lit. I Korean-the learn there is.



After a few months of study the description of the alphabet in Wikipedia makes sense!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul Modern Hangul orthography uses 24 basic letters: 14 consonant letters (ㄱ ㄴ ㄷ ㄹ ㅁ ㅂ ㅅ ㅇ ㅈ ㅊ ㅋ ㅌ ㅍ ㅎ) and 10 vowel letters (ㅏ ㅑ ㅓ ㅕ ㅗ ㅛ ㅜ ㅠ ㅡ ㅣ). There are also 27 complex letters formed by combining the basic letters: 5 tense consonant letters (ㄲ ㄸ ㅃ ㅆ ㅉ), 11 complex consonant letters (ㄳ ㄵ ㄶ ㄺ ㄻ ㄼ ㄽ ㄾ ㄿ ㅀ ㅄ) and 11 complex vowel letters (ㅐ ㅒ ㅔ ㅖ ㅘ ㅙ ㅚ ㅝ ㅞ ㅟ ㅢ). Four basic letters in the original alphabet are no longer used: 1 vowel letter (ㆍ) and 3 consonant letters (ㅿ ㆁ ㆆ).

The Korean letters are written in syllabic blocks with the alphabetic letters arranged in two dimensions. For example, Hangeul in Korean is spelled 한글, not ㅎㅏㄴㄱㅡㄹ. These syllables begin with a consonant letter, then a vowel letter, and then potentially another consonant letter. If the syllable begins with a vowel sound, then the consonant "ㅇ" will act as a silent placeholder. Syllables may begin with basic or tense consonants, but not complex ones. The vowel can be basic or complex, while the second consonant can be basic, complex or a limited number of tense consonants. The way the syllable is structured depends on if the vowel is a "tall" vowel (vertical base line) or a "fat" vowel (horizontal base line); if the vowel is "tall" then the first consonant and vowel are written above the second consonant (if there is one), whereas if a vowel is "fat" then all of the components are written individually top to bottom.



https://www.mondly.com/blog/2020/05/25/hangul-korean-alphabet-pronunciation/

King Sejong created the alphabet as an easier alphabet to use than Chinese kanji characters.


https://www.omniglot.com/writing/korean.htm


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